Cowboy Caleb the liberal arts, grown-up stuff & random mischief

Do SMU Fresh Grads Make Really Make $4k to $10k A Month?

According to the SMU employment survey, their salaries are 6.7% higher than the previous cohort.

Of the 618 survey respondents, 69 got high-paying jobs that pay between $4,000 to $10,000 a month.

And those who got distinctions in their degrees - namely summa cum laude, magna cum laude and cum laude - receive an average starting pay of $3,500.
Congratulations to the SMU Class of 2007.

But the sceptics among us know that results of employment surveys are always to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Oh my… this piece of news that SMU Fresh grads get starting salaries ranging from SGD4-10k, at an average of SGD3.5k made me laugh quite a bit today.

2 years ago, I had no choice but to take on interns from SMU because there were none from NTU and NUS. I learned quite a few lessons. First of all, SMU interns cost more any other interns because SMU demands we pay more rather than for any other reason related to quality. Secondly, SMU interns are either younger (I got a pimply 18 year old) or from a foreign country (which I also got). Too make a long story short, YOUNG + IMMATURE + FOREIGN = DISASTER and I flunked both of them at the end of their internship.

So back to the results of this utterly bizarre survey. Will companies really pay 4-10k for fresh graduates? Despite the fact that they may be younger. Despite the fact that they may be foreigners?

Perhaps.

However, any large company able to pay such salaries to fresh graduates would also possess a highly competent HR department with a proper HR policy. The questions below would surely be asked:

1. Why are we paying so much more for a fresh graduate from SMU as compared to NTU and NUS? (Isn’t NTU and NUS more established compared to SMU?)
2. If we hire a fresh graduate into position A at salary X, will the other current employees (with more experience and perhaps similar educational qualifications) in similar positions earn less or close to X ( In other words, you can’t pay a newbie more than what you’re currently paying your staff to do the same job because if word gets out, morale will go down and resignations will increase) ?

Also take into account how such salary surveys are performed. I would imagine that SMU calls their grads on the phone and asks them questions like “how long did it take you to find a job” and other pointless crap before finally popping “How much is your monthly salary”.

Perhaps being younger (and maybe more immature) these SMU grads may feel the pressure to inflate their salaries…. after all, no need to verify against their payslips right?

Conclusion
So quick, everybody - make sure you go enroll into SMU now! After all, you want to earn more money right?

The survey does not seem to select students randomly..it’s biased towards the high-performers
http://forums.tertiaryessayist.com/index.php?topic=132.msg3197#msg3197

I’m not really sure if your post is in jest, but if you’re calling SMU on their survey methods, then I’m not sure if two interns are a good representation of everyone who graduates and gets jobs?

Also the age thing…. I guess you just were suay and got a year one person (or your HR never weed our properly), but if you got a year one from NTU or NUS they would be 18 too right? Not for the guys cos we got army…

Btw project_00 is right as far as I know. They tend to survey the people from the finance positions and not the “lesser earning” positions. I’m from SMU so can bang my own school lah right?

I was watching the news with some friends and we were all like “what the fuck?!? 4-10k?”.

I am from SMU and i am from the next cohort. While i am not in that income bracket, I must add that I am aware of at least 10 of my school mates have made into that bracket. 2 of them are in the Citibank Mgmt trainee prog which gives them $4k or so they claim. another 3 in deutsche have $5-7k. Those that make into companies like bains etc, do get that amount too. 69 out of 618 is about 10 percent of a cohort which is quite a fair number. That is to say that top 10% really make big bucks.

$4K - $10K for starting pay?
Sure! Get a sales job lor!
Insurance, property, cars, investments, etc.
So long as it is a commission-based job for big ticketed items, the starting pay can reach the sky and more.

I think that insinuating that smu students purposely lie about the salary that they get is not really fair, considering the fact that there really are smu graduates who really am able to get those kind of salaries. Rather, blame the adminstrators who purposely search out these graduates and use them for their survey samples to blow up the salary range.
I would also say that not all smu students are incompentent, but given that given that we are much more in the limelight due to our marketing or our new kids on the block status, more eyes are placed upon us. Im sure that in every university, there will be students who ‘can make it’ or ‘cannot make it’ during their internship but employers would tend to single out smu students more given that we are more visible.
So lets not be too hasty in making any judgements.

Just wanted to comment that perhaps you should have specified what kind of interns you needed before you selected them.

If you didn’t want someone from freshmen year, then specify in the careers website that you want someone in who’s experienced perhaps in year 3 or 4 of their studies. If you didn’t want someone who’s foreign, then specify Singaporeans only, nevermind that by doing so, you may cross certain boundaries of discrimination.

Point is, if you don’t already know what kind of person you’re looking for which explains the lack of specification for applicants, then don’t get too upset when you don’t find who you’re looking for.

In any case, you still have the interviews to fall back on. If you don’t like what you see then, then don’t employ them! Simple as that.

the general consensus on the street is that SMU interns are of a lower quality than others, which actually surprised me.

I’m not sure why you characterise SMU students as being younger or “more foreign” than NTU or NUS students. SMU selects students from the very same pool as NUS/NTU, and is subject to the same 20% cap on foreigners as NTU/NUS. The admissions process is presumably based on merit rather than age or nationality.

I also find it rather disturbing that you equate youth or foreignness with incompetence. Sure, experience does matter, but I doubt the 20-year-old uni student has significantly more experience compared to the 18-year-old uni student. They are both undergoing full-time studies after all. As for nationality, there is no inherent reason why foreigners would be inferior to Singaporeans, unless they have a poor mastery of English or an unfamiliarity with Singaporean work culture. But NUS/NTU students would have similar proportions of foreigners too, so singling out SMU is senseless.

Finally, why should we pay graduates more just because they hail from a “more established” institution? Is it your view that the quality of a university’s graduates is positively correlated with its age? If not, then whether a university is “more established” or not should have no bearing on how much you should pay its graduates. SMU graduates command higher pay presumably because SMU’s pedagogy is more geared towards soft skills such as interview techniques, resume writing, interpersonal skills, etc that give its graduates an edge when it comes to seeking employment.

BTW, I am not in any way affiliated to SMU (I am not an SMU alumni or student or staff member). I just find your entire piece utterly lacking in logic.

Hey Caleb Cowboy,

It is not right to diss SMU students because of your own experience with 2 interns. I did my internship with another young but competent foreign student. Both of us completed the program wtih outstanding performance which the MNC was nice enough to recognise (even though it was totally unexpected). I am just sharing my own experience as a SMU student with your readers so that they can hear some stories from the other side of the coin.

I have to give you points on that crappy survey though.

Some glossed over facts about the article which i think is a load of bull. I am from the class of 2007. I am earning below the average but would exceed that amount in 4 months when my company pays me directly instead of the recruiter.

Most of my friends have trouble finding jobs in the current economic climate and many graduating with summa cum laude. It is funny how the survey did not mention that.

I think that article is crap. It should focus on writing about the inevitable employment bubble that is building for both grads and non-grads instead of building hopes for the next group of students, be it SMU, NTU or NUS.

hey zeus, u know what the fark i wanted to say lah, so i shall not say. (shall keep it in the bar. why duncha start a thread instead and get more newbies in? hurhurhur)

1) from past experience, it is all a matter of shrewd marketing and selective interview, as some mentioned above.
Try interviewing the folks that went to the Big 4s. Starting pay’s only 2.4k.
(wonder if the dean slapped masking tape over their mouth or sth to prevent them from being interviewed)

2) A cum laude is easily achieved at 3.4/4.0 GPA. a magna @ 3.6 & a summa @ 3.8.
So to be honest, it’s quite overrated, especially when the grading system is designed such that A+ gives u extra bonus. (ie 4.3)

3) given the rate of increase in sch fees (smu increased its fees @ quite an exponential rate compared to NUS/NTU), it better farking show some decent (or sounds damn nice) stats to con future gen….

4) it’s part and part of the gahmen’s plot lah. get in more grads, instead of losing them to overseas uni and then they be quitters, migrate….

The fact that SMU has a higher average pay does correlate to its focus on being a management(strong ties with finance sector) school. If you take only NUS Law or medical school which obviously focus on lawyers/doctors starting pay would be higher!

Unfair post I have to say.

cb, i have to come in and defend my sch lah. The statement abt inflating salary is way off. Because I have just graduated, and talking abt salaries and jobs are part and parcel of being a final year, i can give you some perspective

1) the survey is always targeted at the high flyers, and those earning alot. The surveys are skewed and biased. Period.

2) 4k-10k is possible. Like nonchann who mentioned, some of the banks MAs are taking 7k and above. Crazy by true! My friend working in ops is taking more than 4k as a fresh grad. Don’t blame the fresh grad for earning so much, blame the companies for paying them so much.

3) 2007’s job market was really good. NUS and NTU will release fantastic survey results too.

4)NUS and NTU grads are getting paid also around the same as SMU grads, so your presumption abt them getting paid lesser is found untrue. Since most of the top paying jobs come from MNCS, students from all 3 unis have equal chance of securing that high paying job.

5) why are smu grads younger and less mature? I am 23 and just graduated. I don’t find myself very young. Everybody enters uni at around the same age. So that assumption is very unfair indeed.

6) The point abt SMU interns costing more is also not justified. I have seen internship positions at $500 on our school portal. I am not sure how much your HR is paying for interns, but $500-$700 bucks is reasonable (cheaper than temp staff)

7) btw the survey is quite accurate. Majority of my friends (from all unis), is earning 3k++. (auditors excluded as they earn a flat 2.4k)

1. SMU interns don’t cost more than NUS/NTU interns. In fact, when I did my internship (I’m an SMU student), I was paid $500, whereas my NTU colleague was paid $600 because that was their minimum, as specified by NTU.

2. The survey is biased, (most of the respondents were hand-picked), but it isn’t false… I don’t really think it’s fair for you to insinuate that people lied about their salaries.

3. I personally know of many SMU grads who’re earning more than 4k/mth. Most are in the financial sector.

4. It’s too bad that you had such an experience with SMU interns. Like what most have commented, I’d say the problem lied more in your hiring process than with the students themselves. If language or inexperience was an issue for the job scope, then you shouldn’t have hired a year 1 student or a foreigner.

*(Like NUS and NTU, 18-year old students could only have been the year 1 girls.)